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Talk:Super Saiyan Full Power
Wording Change The Perfect Warrior, if your interpretation of "all the time" is "most of the time," is all that you're looking for at this point a change of those three words? Because that's easy and I'm open to suggestions. 01:20, March 16, 2011 (UTC) :1.) Goku spent an overwhelming majority of the frieza fight with the same light hair as fpssj goku in cell fight. I have 120 pics I can post right now if you want showing him light hair at every stage of the fight :2.) Goku and Veg both also spent an overwhelming majority with that color hair in the android 19 fight :3.) Cooler's revenge ssj Goku had the light hair also, same with metal cooler :4.) Vegeta has the same light colored hair vs android 18 :5.) pictures of ssj3 gotenks with the light hair, assj vegeta and trunks with the light hair, and ssj2 teen gohan and maj veg with the light hair show every form shows the light hair. This brings reasonable doubt on the statement that fpssj is different because it implies Toriyama drew them that color the whole time :6.) Goku fpssj against cell was actually golden with an aura for longer than vegeta was as a normal ssj vs 19, goku as well. :7.) The daizenshuu says nothing about the hair color being any different. In fact, it says it's arguably not a real form, which implies no color difference, and talks about how little is said about it. :8.) Vegeta says goku and gohan appear ssj in the manga after they leave Rosat (the manga I supplied is not the official Viz translation, it can be found quoted on the daizenshuu fpssj page) :9.) Nobody mentions anything about different hair color in the anime, Piccolo says they're ssj, it's said they are ssj but it's become their normal state :10.) None of the other guides makes any claim that the hair color is lighter or any different in fpssj. :So the statement about the hair color being light, but when powered up returns to the glow seen all the time in ssj should be removed. Instead It should simply say that little is noted about the appearance, other than Vegeta saying it appears ssj. Even the comments that it appears more relaxed can be explained because in ssj they were only ssj while fighting, whereas in fpssj they were seen relaxing and enjoying themselves. The Perfect Warrior 10:45, March 20, 2011 (UTC)The Perfect Warrior, March 20, 2011 Please use semi-colons to separate you statements from other posters', like I've been doing. Now all those things you said were nice, but what exactly about the statement, "When relaxed, the user's hair appears more of a yellowish white, but when powered up, the golden glow seen all the time in the first transformation makes a return," do you feel may be untrue? You'll need to explain what you meant by the second thing you said as well. 17:19, March 20, 2011 (UTC) :The statement implies that there is a difference in the appearance of fpssj and ssj. The golden glow seen all the time in the first transformation makes a return implies that ssj is golden all the time. While it is true that this statement could also mean that the golden glow is simply more often seen, it is implied that it is constant because on the ssj page the only color listed is the golden color. And to explain my statement that it means either or, the statement implies there is a difference by saying the fpssj appearance, and then making a distinction with the glow, saying it then has a feature attributed to ssj. This implies that it's similar to ssj with the glow, but not with the yellowish white. When we look at normal ssj fights, when they are sitting around calm, they have the light colored hair just like goku dude when calm as a fpssj. That's what my statement meant about Fpssj calmness. We attribute the light hair to them because only in this form did we see them not fighting as ssj, just relaxing and thinking about things, whereas in ssj we only saw them fighting, yet when there were breaks in fights or when they were toying or not at full power their hair often went to the light yellow. Which is why Vegeta against 19 was light the whole fight, but when he fought against 18 and was pushing himself to keep up he was golden most of the fight, yet when they had breaks and were standing on top of cars Vegeta's hair went light yellow again. :I think the statement either makes a distinction between the two, or is unclear in what it says and can be taken to mean many things. I think it would be better to replace the entire statement with a quote about what Vegeta said in the manga, that they appear ssj, or to simply remove the statement from the article. Either way, the ssj page should have the light hair color added to it's colors to make it more accurate. The Perfect Warrior 19:30, March 20, 2011 (UTC)The Perfect Warrior, March 20, 2011 Did you see what I mean about the colons? Check out the revision differences and see where I removed them from your statement just now. It's not crucial, but it's how some text appears indented, whereas other text is totally left aligned, making it easier to tell who says what. While I disagree with how you have interpreted "all the time" in the context, I do agree that that phrase could be replaced without losing the meaning in the way that it's often interpreted in American English, which is as "a lot." I worry about the Vegeta quote regardless of how it's interpreted or discrepancies between versions we've produced, because like you said, that's when they're calm, whereas the focus of the statement in the article is to talk about the change in appearance as they power up. I suggest that we could disambiguate the meaning of the statement for the readers by either removing "all the time" altogether, or by replacing it with "often." Completely removing the statement would take out the mention of the tendency of the hair to get darker as the fighters power up, which you have correctly pointed out. Option A: "When relaxed, the user's hair appears more of a yellowish white, but when powered up, the golden glow seen in the first transformation makes a return." :This option does not lead the readers to believe that the golden glow is always present in the SS form, instead leaving out any quantification whatsoever. Option B: "When relaxed, the user's hair appears more of a yellowish white, but when powered up, the golden glow seen often in the first transformation makes a return." :This option specifically lets the readers know the the SS form is not always accompanied by a golden glow, even suggesting that it may not be the norm. Option C: "When relaxed, the user's hair appears more of a yellowish white, but when powered up, the golden glow seen all the time in the first transformation makes a return." :This option is the unaltered version. I'll present it just in case someone reading this feels strongly about the current wording. I think either of these variations would be accurate without losing the info on powering up leading to the gold hair. Let me know which you prefer, or we can further refine the statement. 22:42, March 20, 2011 (UTC) Votes Please sign underneath the option you prefer, and leave any comments under the comments section. This vote is open to everyone. Option A: "When relaxed, the user's hair appears more of a yellowish white, but when powered up, the golden glow seen in the first transformation makes a return." Option B: "When relaxed, the user's hair appears more of a yellowish white, but when powered up, the golden glow seen often in the first transformation makes a return." * * 01:39, March 22, 2011 (UTC) * Joegt123 01:46, March 22, 2011 (UTC) * 08:10, March 22, 2011 (UTC) * Jeangabin666 20:05, March 22, 2011 (UTC) Option C: "When relaxed, the user's hair appears more of a yellowish white, but when powered up, the golden glow seen all the time in the first transformation makes a return." Comments I feel that option B is the best because it lets people know that the original SS form is not always drawn with the same tone of golden hair. 22:42, March 20, 2011 (UTC) This is really confusing to me as I never had a strong interest myself in the SS forms... since there's hardly any difference to me really. I'm going with option B however primarily because it's the closest differentiation showcasing the first ss form's "often" appearing golden glow. - 01:39, March 22, 2011 (UTC) I like how A sounds, but 10X makes a good point. The glow isn't there all the time. It generally seems to do with whether the user is actively fighting and powered up or not. Joegt123 01:46, March 22, 2011 (UTC) :Option B seems the most viable to me. 08:11, March 22, 2011 (UTC) ::I think A flows a little better, but if B is preferred for accuracy, then that's fine with me too! :-) -- 08:15, March 22, 2011 (UTC) All those statements are alright, but the structure itself is misleading. All three make a distinction that the golden hair is the same, but don't attribute the light hair to ssj, and because ur not attributing one right b4 you attribute another, it sounds as if you are not attributing light color to ssj. I know if I had never seen dbz before and I read that statement, I'd think the light hair was fpssj only. Why not use a statement like this? D.) There is no verifiable difference between the hair color of the fpssj and the ssj forms; in both the user's hair appears yellowish white when relaxed, and golden when powered up. This statement shows that no difference is noted and doesn't leave any room for misinterpretation about whether the statement is drawing a distinction between their appearances. Also I don't know what you mean by semicolon, sorry The Perfect Warrior 03:07, March 23, 2011 (UTC)The Perfect Warrior, March 22, 2011 or maybe just don't even mention ssj The user's hair appears light yellow when relaxed, but changes to a golden glow when powered up. or something like that, I'm too tired to think right now studying for a physics test lol wish me luck. The Perfect Warrior 03:15, March 23, 2011 (UTC)The Perfect Warrior, March 22, 2011 :Looks like we have a consensus, thanks everyone! 23:24, March 25, 2011 (UTC) Lol alright I'm done. See, normally when people discuss something, if someone brings up a new idea they bring the group back to argue it further. Otherwise you still keep a misleading line in your article, and people continue to quote this article as evidence that fpssj and ssj somehow have a different appearance. The Perfect Warrior 23:55, March 26, 2011 (UTC)The Perfect Warrior, March 26, 2011 is full powered super saiyan a real form it actally is the same as super saiyan